Student Choices: What Will Sex Mean?

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At the Center

Wednesday, Apr. 29, 2009

The Ethics Center is developing a set of cases that raise everyday dilemmas for college students. Cases are based on real-life experiences reported by American college students. In this story, written up by student worker Rebecca Fox-Bivona, a freshman considers whether to remain a virgin:

Katherine entered college with a very high standard for herself regarding sex. She is proud of her choice to remain a virgin until marriage. Now she has met the most amazing guy during the fall term of her freshman year. Max, her boyfriend, believes physical affection and even sex are important ways of showing how much two people care for each other. He has pressed Katherine to express their growing romance sexually, but so far she has said no.

Should Katherine revise her beliefs about sex because someone she respects and wants to have a deep relationship with believes differently? His views are probably the mainstream views among their friends, she realizes.

Should Max keep pressing her for sex? Is his bringing it up often a legitimate part of his wanting to express his love for her? Or do his frequent suggestions show a lack of respect for her beliefs?

Posted by Miriam Schulman

Comments

Jethro >.< said on Oct 14, 2009: LOOL nice story xD :P
Mike said on Oct 15, 2009: I Beleave, that if this guy Max, Really cares about her he would wait.
Mary said on Oct 29, 2009: if max truly cares for kathrine, he should respect her wishes and not force her. for relationship is not a game cause alot of people get hurt over relationship. they should both discuss of what they both want from each other and sort things out. cause relationship is about team work, equlalism and caring for each others feelings. not making the other have more power than the other.
Debbie said on Nov 2, 2009: If he loves her he will wait until she is ready. If he forces her to change her beliefs now, then he will continue to do this.
Paul said on Nov 4, 2009: I definitely agree with Mike, Mary, and Debbie
Pran said on Nov 15, 2009: the love demonstrated by max needs sex to justify his affection towards her. Well,sex doesnt always mean love if there is no consent from the partner.Max,instead,should love her more dearly as a sign of respect towards her decision. As and when katherine would appreciate his affection to the extent that she decides to make physical intimacies with him.Be it before marriage or after.It doesnot matter. Respect for each others ideology is very important in any relationships.
Richard said on Nov 16, 2009: As the previous remarks state, Max should respect Kathrine's values. Unfortunately, as an individule that looks farther down the road, I percieve several possible pitfalls of this scenario. The first of which is when they do get married. Max is used to and prefers the boogie bop (ficititous sexual position, used as an example). Kathrine does not know how to perform this position and after being taught it by Max, she decides that she does not like it and will not participate. This leaves Max frustrated and questioning why he ever married Kathrine without verifying the quality of milk in the first place. Considering that sex seems to be an important part of any long term relationship, I do not see this relationship lasting for longer than a year unless Max is an exceptional individual. I apologize for my candor, but watching human nature for such a long time....
Santiago said on Dec 4, 2009: I believe that Max should be a gentleman and a christian and respect Katherine´s decision. The apostle Paul tells us in the letter to the Corinthians that Fornication is a major sin and fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Sex is wonderful gift that the Lord gave us and there is nothing wrong with it, is part of our humanity, but please remember that is reserved for marriage. Perhaps Max should admire the great christian values that this young lady has specially in our times where sin inmorality are very common among young people. May the Lord bless you both. I really hope that you guys make the right decision.
Ponnu said on Feb 1, 2010: she should be such a tease
Mike said on Feb 15, 2010: Perhaps there is an argument to be made the other way however. While we worry about the imposition of Max's beliefs on Katherine, we must also consider that Katherine is asking Max to wait for her. It may be a subtle imposition, but an imposition nonetheless. Many of the previous posts have worried that if Max forces Katherine to have sex, he will force her into doing other things against her beliefs, but cant the same be said the other way? Maybe Katherine also does not feel comfortable showing other kinds of affection that may lead to sex. It is always difficult to know when to draw the line. However, there is danger in the fact that Max continues to press Katherine for sex, but if this is the case the answer is for Katherine to provide a simple ultimatum, either let it go or leave.
phalak said on Mar 2, 2010: as we all are aware ethics has society in its foundation the exposure and social changes we are into has reduced the patience in both the genders and the case suggest different perceptions on sex . further i respect katherine viewpoint and it do not need revision if max is still adamant she should not go for him
Ron said on Mar 8, 2010: 1. Regardless of the weaker or non-existent standards of her boyfriend, or of his attempts to convince (read deceive) her that sexual activity equates to greater care for each-other, Katherine must NOT weaken or compromise her personal moral standards. We are all accountable to ourselves, and to God, for our moral behaviour. 2. Neither should Katherine feel the need to comply with the lower moral standards of her peer group. 3. If Katherine were to change her mind and submit to sexual activity then she will be very disappointed with herself for doing so; indeed, her relationship with Max would probably fall apart as a consequence and she could easily lapse into depression because she allowed it to happen - so, there probably would be long-term pain for her. 4. If Max really were a most amazing guy then he would be very careful to ensure that she is not hurt or offended in any way at all; Katherines strong moral standards should be of the utmost priority for him to maintain. It would seem that this most amazing guy is really not so amazing after all; he is just another one with mainstream views... 5. It is almost definite that Max has had previous sexual activity, for which he is now pressing Katherine. This really ought to make Katherine ask herself whether this relationship is appropriate for her. 6. Katherine needs to refocus on her goals for attending college, making these her priority even if it means losing this, most amazing guy. 7. Even if Katherine were not a virgin, it would still NOT be appropriate for Max to pressure her for sexual activity in their relationship. Knowing she is against this activity makes entirely inappropriate. If he genuinely loves Katherine then he must re-examine his whole approach to having an appropriate relationship. 8. Yes, Maxs frequent suggestions show a serious lack of respect for her personal moral standards. 9. If they both want the relationship to continue they should seek counselling, e.g. from a sound Christian group. 10. I agree with what Mary said, they should both discuss of what they want from each other and sort things out, and not making the other have more power than the other. However, it seems to me that it has already been made quite clear exactly WHAT each one wants from the relationship he wants pre-marital sex and she wants to remain a virgin. The scenario could be viewed from the power perspective, but I believe this would not be fair to Katherine, who simply wants to live up to her personal standards not for any power she may have from it; and Max is deluded in believing that sexual activity will enhance and strengthen their relationship. 11. Comments from Debbie and Pran are also very good. 12. Mike says, we must also consider that Katherine is asking Max to wait for her. It may be a subtle imposition, but an imposition nonetheless. The engagement in sex would NOT guarantee the continuation of the relationship, indeed I believe the contrary would occur. But higher moral standards should not be perceived as an imposition they are a fundamental human RIGHT. 13. Santiago says, The apostle Paul tells us in the letter to the Corinthians that Fornication is a major sin and fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. While I heartily agree with all the Apostle Paul says, the moral depravity that was prevalent at Corinth is NOT what is under discussion in this relationship we should be very careful how we apply the Scriptures to life. (Read dictionary on Corinthian, one meaning is debauched.) Neither is the question of salvation (inherit the kingdom of heaven) any part of this specific (hypothetical) scenario. 14. Whoever Katherine and Max may be, I encourage Max to put your partners safety and self respect above your own desires and to admit that sexual activity will only add to your physical desire for each other but will almost certainly not add to your love.
Aref said on Mar 13, 2010: If Max really loves Kathrine, why can't he wait until he gets married? Love brings up respect and care. Therefore, I would think Max should respect Kathrine if he loves her. How about Max's choice or idealogoy? Can we ignore him and just say that he is the one who should respect and care for Kathrine? How about Kathrine? Should she also not respect Max? I think mutual respect is needed. I personally believe sex before marriage is not right.
for the sex said on May 14, 2010: i being a yound individual about to enter into college myself believe that this would be a proplem. But i believe that sex before marriage is pivitol, because sex is a major part of a married couples lives that if they dont attempt it until their wedding night, all hell could break loose (excuse my language) he shouldnt force her to change her beliefs though, if she wants to risk a full life of happiness and regret the first time she did have sex with her new"ex-husband" go right ahead
Andrew said on May 23, 2010: I am really impressed with the thought everyone applied to this question, especially Ron. One observation I have is that Katherine should be careful dating if she can't have sex. No woman is obliged to have sex with anyone, because that is her power. No woman should be stupid in the choices she makes regarding lovers, the consequences are serious. Also I don't think Katherine should be surprised that Max is trying to seduce her; she should figure where she is leading this man with this game she is playing. I get the sense most commentators view this woman as a potential victim of male desire, but c'mon we all got here because our moms were good-looking and our dads were Mr. Right (at least once). I'm sorry it is that crass. I don't buy the argument that sex must be tried before marriage, especially if your tastes are vanilla in nature. Now if Katherine has no feelings at all in a sexual way then that could be a big problem later. I guess I need to know more about Katherine, not from any prurient interest, just to be accurate in any assessment. Is Max the only one with any feelings here? Maybe Katherine has retained her virginity not out of virtue, but out of dysfunction.
catilina said on Dec 3, 2010: she should wait if she wants to just cause a guy says lets do it doesnt mean she should. Im 15 and am now pregnant because I thought it would be cool to have sex and now im stuck with something i didnt want but im not gonna give it up i made a mistake and now im gonna step up and be a mother. Kids and teens dont let hormones give you something you dont want.
will said on Dec 25, 2010: What a womans world. When will women also go on their kness to pose a question? Because men are stereotyped in this aspect of life that men always proposes. Now my question to katherine is 'Is she really ready to break her virginity? If not, then, she should do the most honest thing. Tell Max the amazing guy. Also, what actually made her think that Max is amazing? is it from his looks or what? Katherine, let me tell you something that "gold is not anything that glitters". This your personal decision and that you know what you want. The amazing guy in your life is demanding something you think you cannot offer him. What are you going to do? Are you open to alternatives if not then why do you resist the amazing guy? On the other hand if you have other choices then let him slip away. You see LOVE is instinct you cannot do anything about it. If you continue to resist your desire you will end up regretting later in life. If Max is willing to spend the rest of his life with you then go ahead and give him the thing after all you can do it safely by insisting use of condom to prevent disease or pregnancy. I am telling you from experience, a girl who was also a virgin in her twenties had a crush on me at college campus we became close friends and everybody knew we were dating each other. As the relationship grew I asked her for sex because I really loved her. But she refused. But you know what happened one of her close friend who also fancied me walk to me and told me she is also virgin and have always looking to have an opportunity to tell me. And that she is ready to do anything for me. So I ask her why is she doing this knowing very well that I was dating her best friend. Do you know what she told me, she said she cannot wait and her heart tells her that I will be a very good husband. Long story short, she agreed with me to have sex but only on condition that I put on condom, so that we do not put our education in jeopardy. We are now married with three lovely kids, and the love is blossom everyday. What is wrong in having sex with someone you love? Do not make children before marriage. There is no such thing that if you are not virgin you cannot find amazing guys. World is changing fast and all these moral nonesense should stop and look into the reality of life. I am not saying you go ronnd having sex indescriminately but do not deny your heart what it wants. I hope Max has no other choices. Other wise he will leave you to find someone who is ready to satisfy his desires. If you really know what you want let the still voice that speaks to you everyday which also spoke to you that Max is Amazing, consult that same voice for answers. That is follow your conscience in what ever you do.
mia said on Feb 7, 2011: i think she should wait until she gets married because its nothing incredable i think do what your heart tells you and if he leaves you because you dont want to have sex then that means he dont love you.
will said on Feb 24, 2011: i think max just wants to take her virginity. as a guy i can say that it is every guys dream to "pop a cherry" dont do it christine. it aint worth it. stick to your beliefs and if he loves you then her will stand beside you on them
JeffB said on Dec 2, 2011: I don't see how two people can even get married if they haven't had sex yet. From Max's perspective, the sex that he could be having with Katherine will always be on his mind and affecting his judgements. He won't be able to truly know if he loves her until the forbidden desire of sex has been taken away and he has had a chance to experience all of Katherine. What's more, the sexual dynamic could completely change the relationship. Why wait until you're married only to find out that the two of you are sexually incompatible, and then break up after wasting years of your life? Also, could someone explain to me the importance of a girl keeping her virginity. WHO CARES?
Gabriel Cherake said on Jun 6, 2012: If I was her, these are the three approaches I would take to contain Max's request. First, I will stick my decision to reamin as a virgin until marriage. If Max does not cope with my decision, he might as well leave me alone and look for other girls who give in easily. Do not let others decide for you. You do what is right for you. Secondly,i will question:what is the good in Max making me to see him as the most amazing guy i ever met in my life.What good is in Max that i like? What is the good in me that Max like? Is it my virginity and beauty? Well maybe, that is why Max is pressing on to have sex with me? Thus, these are temporary good as I would say and of course see. What is the good in us that makes us liking each other infinitely? Hence, knowing that real or permanent good will cause you to do what is right then. And thirdly, if i still don't want to loose Max then go for it, have sex. However, that sex depends on circumstances beyond our control. So, we will have sex but not too much and not too less, just enough amount of it to us going till we get married. This is life, we have give up something to get answer or know where we are going.

Santa Clara University

At the Center

Student Choices: What Will Sex Mean?

Wednesday, Apr. 29, 2009

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